The Week That Was: 2024 11-09 (November 9, 2024)
Brought to You by SEPP (www.SEPP.org)
The Science and Environmental Policy Project
Quote of the Week: “The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance – it is the illusion of knowledge.” — Daniel J. Boorstin, (1914–2004), American historian, the 12th Librarian of the United States Congress (H/t William Readdy)
Number of the Week: 254,000,000 to an inch: 10,000,000,000 to a meter.
THIS WEEK:
By Ken Haapala, President, Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)
Scope: This Week begins with a discussion of what Richard Feynman called Cargo Cult Science. Roy Spencer discusses his efforts to justify the high temperatures recorded in 1913, at Greenland Ranch in Death Valley, California. Andy May discusses his exploration in determining if climate cycles are largely responsible for current temperature, rather than carbon dioxide (CO2). Kip Hansen demonstrates how a slight change in temperature in the initial conditions of a global climate model can produce dramatic changes in results. Charles Rotter discusses a paper by Demetris Koutsoyiannis who asserts that water vapor and clouds are far more important than CO2. The process of updating the HITRAN database is presented.
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Cargo Cult Science: In his famous 1974 commencement address at Caltech, Richard Feynman discussed natives in the South Seas who tried to duplicate an airfield in hopes of attracting airplanes to unload material goods they desired. Feynman said:
“They’re doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn’t work. No airplanes land. So, I call these things Cargo Cult Science because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they’re missing something essential, because the planes don’t land.
Now it behooves me, of course, to tell you what they’re missing. But it would be just about as difficult to explain to the South Sea Islanders how they have to arrange things so that they get some wealth in their system. It is not something simple like telling them how to improve the shapes of the earphones. But there is one feature I notice that is generally missing in Cargo Cult Science. That is the idea that we all hope you have learned in studying science in school—we never explicitly say what this is, but just hope that you catch on by all the examples of scientific investigation. It is interesting, therefore, to bring it out now and speak of it explicitly. It’s a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty—a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if you’re doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid—not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you’ve eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked—to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated.
Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given if you know them. You must do the best you can—if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong—to explain it. If you make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well as those that agree with it. There is also a more subtle problem. When you have put a lot of ideas together to make an elaborate theory, you want to make sure, when explaining what it fits, that those things it fits are not just the things that gave you the idea for the theory; but that the finished theory makes something else come out right, in addition.
In summary, the idea is to try to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another.” (Boldface was italics in the original link.)
Climate scientist Roy Spencer is attempting to bring utter honesty to the US surface-air temperature records and is comparing the world record high temperature from Greenland Ranch/Furnace Creek in Death Valley, California, with other stations nearby. Spencer states:
There are solid meteorological reasons why one can use fairly distant, higher-elevation stations to check Death Valley temperatures in July. (Remember, my formal training is as a meteorologist…
In simple terms, daytime temperatures during the warm season in dry, semi-desert or desert climates vary with altitude in a predictable and repeatable manner, and with little change over substantial distances. Evidence of this is shown in Fig. 1 (not shown here). This is much less true during the cool season, at night, or during cloudy (or even rainy) weather. This makes Death Valley in July one of the best places on Earth for fact-checking of very warm daytime temperature values. This applies very well to the southwestern U.S. in the summer (at least before monsoon rains arrive), where a semi-permanent high-pressure ridge in May-July gets set up every year, with slowly subsiding (sinking) air producing mostly clear skies. This kind of weather feature has a large and uniform regional extent (unlike low pressure troughs, which can be sharp with strong horizontal temperature changes). This is related to something called the “Rossby radius of deformation “.
In simple terms, the warm, high pressure airmasses that settle in over the SW U.S. in July are spatially uniform, with strong daytime vertical mixing producing temperature lapse rates approaching the dry adiabatic value. This allows comparisons between temperature at stations up to (for example) 100 miles away. The big differences in temperatures between neighboring stations, then, are primarily due to altitude. Daytime temperatures in the summer in dry climates decrease rapidly with height, providing perfect meteorological conditions for doing the kind of comparison I’m describing here.
Spencer references the work of Bill Reid on unravelling Death Valley’s 134°F (57°C) Temperature record. Earlier Reid wrote that the temperature record is not credible and suggested changes to Spencer’s first post on his findings. Spencer is now reconsidering his earlier post. Will the 134°F (57°C) record hold to this analysis? Perhaps not, but TWTW must wait to see what develops. This is the type of utter honesty that is lacking in the data collection and climate modeling used by the UN International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and its collaborators.
Spencer stated his investigation was prompted by a suggestion by John Christy, the Director of the Earth System Science Center at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. Spencer is his colleague there. See links under Challenging the Orthodoxy.
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Natural Climate Change: In a post in WUWT, Petrophysicist Andy May examines some of the possible natural changes influencing Earth’s temperature changes, contributing to climate change. In a post in his personal blog May discussed the January 2014 workshop held by the American Physical Society (APS) on the physical basis of climate change with atmospheric physics the predominant topic. May wrote:
“I was struck by the level of agreement on several key issues. First there is considerable uncertainty in the forcings, both natural and man-made. This means that the cause or causes of warming in the second half of the 20th Century are not known with any precision. Saying that man is responsible for more than 50% of the warming is not useful or defensible. We simply do not know, there is no observational evidence, and the models are not accurate enough to tell us.”
The proponents of alarming climate change were Drs. Held, Collins, and Santer while the skeptics were Drs. Curry, Lindzen and Christy. Steven Koonin was the moderator.
(Separately, Koonin was disturbed by the procedures used by the IPCC in altering the high degree of uncertainty involved in IPCC modeling and its reports. In his book Unsettled? he stated he was: “shaken by the realization that climate science was far less mature than I had supposed.” Among the points he lists that he discovered are:
- The results from the multitude of climate models disagree with, even contradict, each other and many kinds of observations. A vague ‘expert judgement’ was sometimes applied to adjust model results and obfuscate shortcomings.
- Government and UN press releases and summaries do not accurately reflect the reports themselves. There was a consensus at the meeting on some important issues, but not at all the strong consensus the media promulgates. Distinguished climate experts (including report authors themselves) are embarrassed by some media portrayals of the science. This was somewhat shocking.
- In short, the science is insufficient to make useful projections about how the climate will change over the coming decades, much less what effect our actions will have on it.”
Koonin stated he expressed his concerns in a Wall Street Journal editorial which he quotes in his book:
“Policy makers and the public may wish for the comfort of certainty in their climate science. But I fear that rigidly promulgating the idea that climate science is ‘settled’ (or is a ‘hoax’) demeans and chills the scientific enterprise, regarding its progress in these important matters. Uncertainty is a prime mover and motivator of science and must be faced head on.”)
Andy May discusses that the IPCC and its collaborators do not accept solar variability as a primary cause of climate change. He lists what he thinks are the six best documented solar/climate cycles plus the “Stadium wave” concept advocated by Judith Curry. The Stadium wave is primarily driven by ocean oscillations. Also, he gives an estimate of CO2 influence on temperature given in a paper in a 1906 paper by Svante Arrhenius and amplified in the 1908 book by Arrhenius Worlds in the Making: The Evolution of the Universe, in which he reduced the CO2 influence he estimated in his 1896 paper. In the 1908 paper Arrhenius realized that the influence of CO2 is subject to diminishing returns, and based on laboratory experiments is described by the binary logarithm (log 2 or the inverse of powers of 2). Arrhenius called this increase geometric progression. (The US EPA uses the 1898 paper as a justification for declaring CO2 is a pollutant while ignoring the 1908 book.)
May creates a multiple regression model with these variables to describe changes in version 5 of the Hadley Center-Climate Research Center temperature estimates from 1850 to 2024. The regression using the models alone with no CO2 has a high R-squared of 0.8523, an indication of how well the regression line approximates the actual data. It is called the coefficient of determination. May then applies the MODTRAN database for CO2 to the regression and finds a slightly better fit of 0.8548. In his conclusions May states:
“As usual in climate science (and statistical analysis) you can take away whatever you like from this analysis. Statistics and climate science are similar in this way, you can always generate a lot of discussion around either of them, and still know nothing.”
See link under Challenging the Orthodoxy.
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Initial Conditions: One of the vexing problems in criticizing a specific global climate model by comparing the results with specific temperatures is the modeler’s defense that the results for a specific time depend on the initial conditions. In his long essay posted on WUWT, Kip Hansen demonstrates how minor changes in the initial conditions can result in major variations in projections for major regions of Earth. Hansen states:
“What happened when Deser and Kay ran the Community Earth System Model (CESM) 40 times, repeating the exact same model run forty different times, using all the same inputs and parameters, with the exception of one input: the Global Atmospheric Temperature? This input was modified for each run by:
less than one-trillionth of one degree
or
< 0.0000000000001 °C
And that one change resulted in the projections for “Winter temperature trends (in degrees Celsius) for North America between 1963 and 2012”, presented as images:
The images are of North America ranging from the far north getting much hotter and the US getting colder to central and western Canda getting hotter and eastern US and eastern Canada getting colder. Hansen writes:
“This situation cannot be obviated. It cannot be ‘worked around.’ It cannot be solved by finer and finer gridding.
Nothing can correct for the fact that sensitivity to initial conditions — the primary feature of Chaos Theory’s effect on climate models — causes models to lose the ability to predict long-term future climate states.”
Hansen further demonstrates the Chaos problem with early-cycle track guidance for Hurricane Rafael on November 6, 2024, at 1200 UTC. The hurricane was projected to go from Cuba to multiple places ranging from southeast Mexico to Tampa Florida. The chaos problem exists. Hansen concludes:
“This is not an easy topic. It produces controversy. Climate scientists know about Lorenz, chaos, sensitivity to initial conditions, non-linear dynamical systems and what that means for climate models. The IPCC used to know but ignores the facts now.
Some commenter here will cry that “It is not an initial conditions problem but a boundaries problem” – as if that makes everything OK. You can read about that in a very deep way here. I may write about that attempt to dodge reality in a future essay.
I will end with a reference to the eclectic R G Brown’s comments which I sponsored here, in which he says:”
(The figure of a Feigenbaum tree is not shown here.)
“’What nobody is acknowledging is that current climate models, for all of their computational complexity and enormous size and expense, are still no more than toys, countless orders of magnitude away from the integration scale where we might have some reasonable hope of success. They are being used with gay abandon to generate countless climate trajectories, none of which particularly resemble the climate, and then they are averaged in ways that are an absolute statistical obscenity as if the linearized average of a Feigenbaum tree of chaotic behavior is somehow a good predictor of the behavior of a chaotic system! … This isn’t just dumb; it is beyond dumb. It is literally betraying the roots of the entire discipline for manna.’”
And so, say I.”
See link under Challenging the Orthodoxy.
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Water Vapor and CO2: Charles Rotter of WUWT cites a paper by Demetris Koutsoyiannis who asks: “Relative importance of carbon dioxide and water in the greenhouse effect: Does the tail wag the dog?” Rotter writes:
“In his paper, “Relative Importance of Carbon Dioxide and Water in the Greenhouse Effect: Does the Tail Wag the Dog,” Demetris Koutsoyiannis explores the greenhouse effect’s primary drivers, positing that water vapor and clouds vastly overshadow carbon dioxide (CO₂) in terms of their contribution. Using a radiative transfer model (MODTRAN), Koutsoyiannis analyzes downwelling and outgoing longwave radiation and derives macroscopic relationships that express greenhouse gas effects quantitatively. His calculations suggest that water vapor and clouds contribute between 87% to 95% of the greenhouse effect, while CO₂’s impact is only around 4% to 5%. The findings also indicate that recent increases in atmospheric CO₂, from 300 to 420 ppm, contribute negligibly—an effect quantified at just 0.5% for both downwelling and outgoing radiation.”
The abstract of the paper states:
“Using a detailed atmospheric radiative transfer model, we derive macroscopic relationships of downwelling and outgoing longwave radiation which enable determining the partial derivatives thereof with respect to the explanatory variables that represent the greenhouse gases. We validate these macroscopic relationships using empirical formulae based on downwelling radiation data, commonly used in hydrology, and satellite data for the outgoing radiation. We use the relationships and their partial derivatives to infer the relative importance of carbon dioxide and water vapor in the greenhouse effect. The results show that the contribution of the former is 4% – 5%, while water and clouds dominate with a contribution of 87% – 95%. The minor effect of carbon dioxide is confirmed by the small, non-discernible effect of the recent escalation of atmospheric CO₂ concentration from 300 to 420 ppm. This effect is quantified at 0.5% for both downwelling and outgoing radiation. Water and clouds also perform other important functions in climate, such as regulating heat storage and albedo, as well as cooling the Earth’s surface through latent heat transfer, contributing 50%. By confirming the major role of water on climate, these results suggest that hydrology should have a more prominent and more active role in climate research.
As Rotter writes:
“However, Koutsoyiannis acknowledges that the hypothetical removal of CO₂, often discussed in theoretical studies, lacks empirical backing, as CO₂ has consistently been a part of Earth’s atmosphere over geological timescales. He also contrasts the rapid turnover of water vapor with CO₂’s longer residence time, highlighting the latter’s well-mixed nature across the atmosphere as a potential reason why its warming effects appear diffused.
Through his analysis, Koutsoyiannis calls for a reorientation of climate research, urging the scientific community to afford greater attention to hydrology and to reconsider CO₂’s central role in climate models. He concludes that the understanding of Earth’s climate may be limited by the current emphasis on CO₂ emissions, which he argues overlooks the nuanced and regionally specific effects of water vapor.
In sum, ‘Does the Tail Wag the Dog?’ is a critique of prevailing climate science paradigms, advocating for a model that recognizes water vapor and clouds as the foremost greenhouse agents while downplaying CO₂’s overall effect. Koutsoyiannis’s paper encourages a shift in climate research focus toward hydrology and questions the mainstream positioning of CO₂ as the cornerstone of climate change theory.”
Clearly water vapor must be addressed in all models professing to consider the changing greenhouse effect with increasing CO2 concentrations, whatever the cause. The global climate models (general circulation models) do not address water vapor well. As Tim Palmer, a pioneer in the ensemble method of using these models stated in his book, The Primacy of Doubt, the influence of water vapor is added to the results of the models after the influence of CO2 is calculated. Thus, the influence of the combination of water vapor and CO2 is lost as well as the influence of the combination of water vapor and other greenhouse gases. See links under Challenging the Orthodoxy.
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Updating HITRAN: For the above discussion, the well-established MODTRAN database is used. However, as physicist Donald Rapp has said, the database is based on laboratory experiments that do not incorporate the changing atmosphere with increasing CO2. However, the HITRAN database does: From HITRAN online:
“HITRAN is an acronym for high-resolution transmission molecular absorption database. HITRAN is a compilation of spectroscopic parameters that a variety of computer codes use to predict and simulate the transmission and emission of light in the atmosphere. The database is a long-running project started by the Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratories (AFCRL) in the late 1960s in response to the need for detailed knowledge of the infrared properties of the atmosphere. A history of the HITRAN database has recently been summarized in the following article:
L.S. Rothman, History of the HITRAN database, Nature Review Physics 3, 302-304 (2021)
The HITRAN compilation, and its associated database HITEMP (high-temperature spectroscopic absorption parameters), are developed and maintained at the Atomic and Molecular Physics Division, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
HITRAN online provides access to the latest version of the HITRAN molecular spectroscopic database.
Scientific Objectives
The simultaneous developments of high-resolution laboratory instrumentation (such as the Fourier transform spectrometer),the digital computer and storage, and sensitive detectors and the means to carry them on board high-altitude balloons and space craft provided the stimulus to create a machine-readable archive of the fundamental properties of molecular transitions. It was then possible to simulate transmission and radiance in the terrestrial atmosphere by applying known radiative-transfer equations. Thus, was born the original HITRAN molecular absorption line parameters database.(Boldface added)
The initial HITRAN was limited to the seven main telluric atmospheric absorbers in the infrared: H2O, CO2, O3, N2O, CO, CH4, and O2. The most significant of the isotopologues of these molecular species was also included. The initial HITRAN database included only the basic parameters necessary to solve the Lambert-Beers law of transmission, namely the line center of a transition, the intensity of the transition, and the lower-state energy. In addition, the air-broadened Lorentz width was included as well as the unique quantum identifications of the upper and lower states of each transition.
Before long, the objectives of HITRAN greatly expanded. The spectral range of applicability soon covered the microwave through visible region of the electromagnetic spectrum. In terms of physics, which meant transitions of pure rotation as well as ro-vibration (and even some transitions between different electronic states). The applications also went beyond the simple atmosphere, and many molecules were added that represented trace species in the atmosphere and pollutants in the troposphere. More recently, HITRAN has served the planetary atmospheres community. As a result, the transitions in the database have incorporated more basic parameters, especially those that allow simulation of collisional broadening of spectral lines.
The current and planned remote-sensing satellite missions had also put new demands on HITRAN for precision and accuracy. The line positions and intensities are being acquired at unprecedented accuracy.”
The high-resolution HITRAN database is updated frequently, and is the most current available for describing the changing atmosphere. Using this database, the important influence of water vapor on Earth’s temperatures and on other greenhouse gases is calculated by van Wijingaarden and Happer in “The Role of Greenhouse Gases in Energy Transfer in the Earth’s Atmosphere” They clearly state that their work is based on clear skies. They are working on a theory of clouds, which is an important gap on understanding the influence of atmospheric gases on Earth’s changing temperatures. See links under Challenging the Orthodoxy – Radiation Transfer.
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Number of the Week: 254,000,000 to an inch: 10,000,000,000 to a meter. Wavelengths of light are measured in angstroms (Å). One Å is one-tenth of a nanometer and a nanometer is one billionth of a meter. There are 254,000,000 angstroms in one inch. Visible light ranges from 4000 Å to 7000 Å, most elements have atoms with radii ranging about 1 to 2Å. This is the scale in dealing with radiative transfer of electromagnetic energy (photons) to greenhouse gas molecules and these molecules radiating out energy (photons) in any direction. Can weather/climate models on a scale of hundreds of kilometers properly incorporate concepts developed on this tiny scale?
Commentary: Is the Sun Rising?
An Ice Age Is Coming And It’s Not Milankovitch Who Says It, But The Sun!
Video, Insane Curiosity, accessed Nov 6, 2024 (H/t Bernie Kepshire)
Censorship
Help us Elon, you’re our only hope! (The Australian government is sneaking in misinformation laws and ID rules)
By Jo Nova, Her Blog, Nov 8, 2024
Challenging the Orthodoxy — NIPCC
Climate Change Reconsidered II: Physical Science
Idso, Carter, and Singer, Lead Authors/Editors, Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), 2013
Summary: https://www.heartland.org/_template-assets/documents/CCR/CCR-II/Summary-for-Policymakers.pdf
Climate Change Reconsidered II: Biological Impacts
Idso, Idso, Carter, and Singer, Lead Authors/Editors, Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), 2014
Climate Change Reconsidered II: Fossil Fuels
By Multiple Authors, Bezdek, Idso, Legates, and Singer eds., Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change, April 2019
Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming
The NIPCC Report on the Scientific Consensus
By Craig D. Idso, Robert M. Carter, and S. Fred Singer, Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), Nov 23, 2015
Nature, Not Human Activity, Rules the Climate
S. Fred Singer, Editor, NIPCC, 2008
http://www.sepp.org/publications/nipcc_final.pdf
Challenging the Orthodoxy – Radiation Transfer
The Role of Greenhouse Gases in Energy Transfer in the Earth’s Atmosphere
By W.A. van Wijngaarden and W. Happer, Preprint, Mar 3, 2023
Dependence of Earth’s Thermal Radiation on Five Most Abundant Greenhouse Gases
By W.A. van Wijngaarden and W. Happer, Preprint, December 22, 2020
The HITRAN Database
By Staff, HITRAN online, Accessed Nov 8, 2024
About MODTRAN®
By Staff, Spectral Sciences Inc. Accessed Nov 8, 2024
http://modtran.spectral.com/modtran_about
Challenging the Orthodoxy
Death Valley World Record 134 deg. F is Biased ~10 deg. Too High
By Roy Spencer, His Blog, Nov 8, 2024
Link to Feynman address: Cargo Cult Science
By Richard P. Feynman, Caltech’s commencement address, 1974
Natural Climate Change Factors
By Andy May, WUWT, Nov 5, 2024
Why Numerical Climate Models Fail at Long-term Climate Prediction
By Kip Hansen, WUWT, Nov 8, 2024
Relative importance of carbon dioxide and water in the greenhouse effect: Does the tail wag the dog?
By Charles Rotter, WUWT, Nov 7, 2024
Link to paper: Relative importance of carbon dioxide and water in the greenhouse effect: Does the tail wag the dog?
By Demetris Koutsoyiannis, Science of Climate Change, Accepted Oct 28, 2024
Urban Legends of Climate Change: Palm Springs, California
By Roy Spencer, His Blog, Nov 5, 2024
A Summary of the APS Workshop on Climate Change
By Andy May Petrophysicist, His Blog, Dec 5, 2015
Mining Industry Needs $2.1 Trillion Dollars in New Investment to Meet Net-Zero Demand for Raw Materials
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 5, 2024
Link to press release: Mining Industry Needs $2.1 Trillion Dollars in New Investment by 2050 to Meet Net-Zero Demand for Raw Materials, Finds BloombergNEF in New Report
By Staff, BloombergNEF, Oct 3, 2024
Defending the Orthodoxy – Bandwagon Science
Energy Trade: A New World Is Being Born But Will Need Help to Grow Up
By David M. Hart, Real Clear Energy, Nov 06, 2024
Link to report: Energy Technology Perspectives 2024
By Staff, International Energy Agency (IEA), 2024
(SEPP Comment: Another “dreamy” IEA report that ignores the critical issue of costs. This is why policies based on dreamy reports are failing everywhere they are tried.)
Impacts of renewable energy resources on the weather vulnerability of power systems
By Jin Zhao, Fangxing Li & Qiwei Zhang, Nature, Energy, Oct 21, 2024 (H/t Bernie Kepshire)
From abstract: In this study, we find that although WD-RESs are non-dispatchable and weather sensitive, blackout intensities and extreme weather vulnerability are mitigated in high-penetration WD-RES grids. The causal effects of WD-RESs on blackouts generally decrease in high-penetration.
(SEPP Comment: Strongly disagree with the twisted language. In severe weather conditions, such as extreme cold or hurricane force winds, other types of power failures may also occur, eliminating direct cause. But there is no reason to assume wind and solar can deliver under such conditions.)
Questioning the Orthodoxy
The Geological Record of Climate Change and Why Today’s Increase in Atmospheric CO2 Is the Result of Global Warming, Not the Cause
By David Shelley, WUWT, Nov 2, 2024
NZ climate scientist Kevin Trenberth questions the scientific basis for stringent methane reduction goals and has challenged the widely held belief that these emissions significantly contribute to global warming. He says, in a comment posted to the Newsroom story, that the moral panic surrounding New Zealand’s emissions, particularly related to methane, is scientifically unfounded.
(SEPP Comment: Trenberth is an accomplished and highly published scientist at the National Center of Atmospheric Research (NCAR) and editor of Climate System Modeling (1992). He is a leader in Global Climate Modeling. However, the author’s assertion that the primary cause of the 20th century increase in CO2 was from natural causes is questionable. The current level is far above the record shown in ice cores.)
At a Climate Policy Tipping-point
By Ron Clutz, His Blog, Nov 8, 2024
Link to article: Joe Oliver: We’re at a climate policy turning-point
Across Europe and North America, voters are increasingly skeptical of climate alarmism and worried about the high cost of net-zero policies
By Joe Oliver, Financial Post (Canada), Nov 5, 2024
(SEPP Comment: Turning-point is a more accurate description than tipping-point which has become climate community jargon with little meaning.)
The incredible vanishing future warming
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
#CheerfulCharts #14: Childhood cancers
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
We can’t eliminate our best and cheapest form of energy and not expect to lose out on the many benefits it has brought. A slogan like Just Stop Oil might as well be rephrased “Just Stop Everything including treatments for childhood cancer.”
Despite Media Panic, There Is No Reason to Think 2024’s Warming Is Disastrous
By Linnea Lueken, Climate Realism, Nov 8, 2024
After Paris!
Baku to the future
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
But this year we’re going to insert ourselves into the cycle, by attending the conference, hearing the speeches, looking at the exhibits and talking to people, and we’ll try to give you a realistic appraisal of what’s really going on, what the people there actually think they might accomplish, and why they think after nearly 30 years of this process the next one is bound to do the trick.
Social Benefits of Carbon Dioxide
CO2 sowing the wild oats
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
From the CO2Science Archive
Right, Our World In Data, Climate Change Is Increasing Crop Yields, Concern About Future Decline Is Unwarranted
By H. Sterling Burnett, Climate Realism, Nov 5, 2024
Link to article: Crop yields have increased dramatically in recent decades, but crops like maize would have improved more without climate change
Climate change has slowed the productivity of key crops such as maize and soybeans but might have had small positive impacts on wheat.
By Hannah Ritchie, Our World in Data, Sep 30, 2024
(SEPP Comment: The three main cereal crops that are C4 plants, Maize (corn), Millet, and Sorghum, use CO2 more efficiently than C3 plants such as wheat and rice. Thus, they do not benefit as much from increasing CO2 as wheat, rice, and trees benefit. The modeling of a decline in productivity with temperature increase is highly questionable. For decades farmers have used different hybrids for the different regional climates on Earth. Maize was first cultivated in a period warmer than today in the lowland areas of southwestern Mexico about 9,000 to 10,000 years ago.)
Problems in the Orthodoxy
For the second time in a week, climate scientists surprised with an increased CO2 absorption mechanism.
By Anthony Watts, WUWT, Nov 2, 2024
Science, Policy, and Evidence
If net zero means letting Britain go dark, Labour are finished
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 6, 2024
Model Issues
A Short Biography of Warren M. Washington: NCAR Climate Scientist
By Staff, NCAR, Accessed July 7, 2024
These models, which use fundamental laws of physics to predict future states of the atmosphere, have helped scientists understand climate change.
Measurement Issues — Surface
Science Shock: U.K. Met Office is “Inventing” Temperature Data from 100 Non-Existent Stations
By Chris Morrison, The Daily Sceptic, Nov 5, 2024
Shocking evidence has emerged that points to the U.K. Met Office inventing temperature data from over 100 non-existent weather stations. The explosive allegations have been made by citizen journalist Ray Sanders and sent to the new Labour Science Minister Peter Kyle MP. Following a number of Freedom of Information requests to the Met Office and diligent field work visiting individual stations, Sanders has discovered that 103 stations out of 302 sites supplying temperature averages do not exist.
In his home county of Kent, Sanders charges that four of the eight sites identified by the Met Office, namely Dungeness, Folkestone, Dover and Gillingham – which all produce rolling temperature averages to the second decimal place of a degree – are “fiction”.
Measurement Issues — Atmosphere
UAH v6.1 Global Temperature Update for October 2024: +0.73 deg. C After Truncation of the NOAA-19 Satellite Record
By Roy Spencer, His Blog, Nov 2, 2024
(SEPP Comment: TWTW will discuss the new Version 6.1 next week.)
Changing Weather
Update on Reservoir Levels
By Cliff Mass, Weather Blog, Nov 6, 2024
As we start the winter wet season, it is a good idea to check the reservoir levels in the western U.S. How is our water supply doing before the big precipitation events?
In California, which has enormous water needs for a huge population and massive agriculture, the reservoirs are now in good shape, with water levels generally at or above normal. The substantial precipitation and great snowpack of last winter deserve the credit.
Changing Cryosphere – Land / Sea Ice
New Study: Antarctic Sea Ice Has Been Increasing Since The 1970s…Due To Internal Decadal Variability
By Kenneth Richard, No Tricks Zone, Nov 8, 2024
Link to paper: Sources of low-frequency variability in observed Antarctic sea ice
By David B. Bonan, et al., The Cryosphere, Apr 30, 2024
Glaciers Vs. The Hockey Stick
By Tony Heller, His Blog, Nov 4, 2024
“Many of the current glaciers in the Rocky Mountains reached their minimum size in the mid-1940s, then fluctuated and slightly increased in size during the 1950s and 1960s. They advanced somewhat through the 1970s and 1980s due to cooler summer temperatures”
New Study Finds Arctic Warming, Declining Sea Ice May Be A ‘Benefit’ To Polar Bears And Ringed Seals
By Kenneth Richard, No Tricks Zone, Nov 5, 2024
Link to paper: Identifying indicators of polar bear population status Author links open overlay panel
By Karyn D. Rode, et al., Ecological Indicators, February 2024
(SEPP Comment: Will the World Wildlife Fund find a new emotional support animal?)
Lowering Standards
Scientific shut up
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
(SEPP Comment: According to the former “Skeptic” columnist for the Scientific American for 18 years, after the election the editor of Scientific American posted comments laced with foul language. The posts are now protected. The magazine endorsed the losing candidate; so much for any claim of objectivity.)
Communicating Better to the Public – Use Yellow (Green) Journalism?
When Frankenstein met climate
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
The New York Times recently offered a cheerful piece on “Changing the DNA of Living Things to Fight Climate Change”.
Flooding Facts Drowned by Climate Hysteria: The BBC Ignores Spain’s Weather History
By Anthony Watts and H. Sterling Burnett, Climate Realism, Nov 4, 2024
The rain in Spain falls mainly on the climate
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
And NBC didn’t wait for bodies to be recovered from cars washed into Valencia’s narrow streets before cawing “While autumn storms are not uncommon in Spain, the intensity of the flooding has stunned the country. Extreme weather events like this one are becoming more common around the world, with the scientific community saying the increased episodes are most likely linked to the climate crisis.” The scientific community, no less. Someone give us its phone number so we can check on that statistic-like object “extreme weather events like this one” becoming “more common around the world”
Extreme weather contributing to migration between US, Mexico: Research
By Zack Budryk, The Hill, Nov 8, 2024
Link to paper: Weather deviations linked to undocumented migration and return between Mexico and the United States
By Julia Li Zhu, et al., PNAS, Nov 4, 2024
From statement of significance: Over two million undocumented migrants originating from Mexico or other countries crossed the Mexico–U.S. border in fiscal year 2022, many of them putting their lives at risk. Our work shows that weather shocks in Mexico, along with well-established economic and social conditions, are historically linked to this clandestine mobility.
(SEPP Comment: What motivated migrants from other countries using the Mexican border?)
Wrong, Grist, Climate Change Isn’t Causing a Rise in Authoritarianism
By Linnea Lueken, Climate Realism, Nov 1, 2024
Wrong, Bloomberg, Real World Evidence Proves Extreme Rainfall Hasn’t Become More Frequent or Deadly
By Anthony Watts, Climate Realism, Nov 7, 2024
SHOCK NEWS!! Ultra-rich using jets like taxis
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 8, 2024
From BBC News: “The mega-rich are using private jets like taxis, warn climate scientists who tracked flights to calculate the planet-warming gases they release.
The scientists worked out that the carbon dioxide emissions, which contribute to climate change, rose by 46% between 2019 and 2023.”
Homewood: Maybe they should start with cancelling all future climate conferences and holding them online then!
Communicating Better to the Public – Make things up.
Climate Researchers Warn: Warmer Climate Could Lead To “Cold Waves Across Northern Europe”!
By P Gosselin, No Tricks Zone, Nov 2, 2024
Link to first paper refenced in the letter, which is linked: Overlooked possibility of a collapsed Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation in warming climate
By Wei Liu, et al, AAAS Science Advances, Jan 4, 2017
Link to second paper referenced: Exceeding 1.5°C global warming could trigger multiple climate tipping points
By David I. Armstrong McKay, et al. AAAS Science, Sep 9, 2022
(SEPP Comment: All dependent on a wild guess of warming from a doubling of CO2 from the 1990 level with little physical evidence supporting the guess. Surprisingly, the editor of second AAAS Science article titled his comments as: “Getting tipsy” a slang term for intoxicated.)
Miliband Lies About NESO Report
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 5, 2024
Alarmism eats your (ugh) school lunch
By John Robson, Climate Discussion Nexus, Nov 6, 2024
From NYT on school lunches: “Apples transported over long distances might cause more air pollution, for example, which ends up causing costly respiratory conditions that might have been avoided. Milk from dairies in areas with low rainfall might deprive other users of scarce water. Serving hamburgers supports an industry that generates planet-warming methane, accelerating extreme weather events that destroy homes and kill people. Add up all those extra hidden costs, and local, plant-based menus might start to look like a better way to spend government money.”
From Robson: Luckily someone somewhere knows precisely how much carbon the ingredients and processes that go into a school lunch spew, precisely how much harm it does, and exactly what to do about it. If only we could find that person.
Communicating Better to the Public – Use Propaganda
Climate change ‘exacerbating’ mental health crisis
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 6, 2024
Climate change is drying out the US West, even when rain pours: Study
By Sharon Udasin, The Hill, Nov 7, 2024
Link to paper: Anthropogenic warming has ushered in an era of temperature-dominated droughts in the western United States
By Yizhou Zhuang, et al., AAAS Science, Nov 6, 2024
From abstract: The unprecedented 2020–2022 WUS drought exemplifies this shift in drought drivers, with high evaporative demand accounting for 61% of its severity, compared to 39% from precipitation deficit.
(SEPP Comment: How does that two year “unprecedented” period compare with the 800s which caused inhabitants to abandon villages?)
Climate Change Brings Record Breaking Threat To Health–Lancet
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 3, 2024
They only want to generate alarmist headlines, to push forward their Net Zero agenda.
Claim: Weather Disasters are Fueling Climate Denial
By Eric Worrall, WUWT, Nov 2, 2024
A group of psychologists have claimed fear drives deniers to reject the truth. But they ignore evidence academic group-think hysteria is the real “climate crisis”.
“Terror management theory predicts that individuals whose ideologies conflict with environmental concerns may ironically double down on those beliefs to psychologically manage the existential threat posed by climate-related disasters.”
Communicating Better to the Public – Protest
BBC Uphold Polar Bear Complaint
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 7, 2024
Protesting Too Much Snow
By Tony Heller, His Blog, Nov 4, 2024
Questioning European Green
Scholz’s Green Fantasy Government Collapses – Proof That Climate Policy Mania Is Ruining Germany
By Charles Rotter, WUWT, Nov 7, 2024
Link to separate article: Germany’s governing coalition collapses
German Chancellor Scholz says a vote of confidence is planned for January, possibly paving the way for snap elections. The move comes as Scholz fired Finance Minister Christian Lindner amid divisions over economic plans.
By Staff, DW, Nov 7, 2024
From WUWT: Scholz kicked out his finance minister, Christian Lindner, for daring to do his job—keeping the books balanced and calling out the green pipe dream for what it is. So now the government’s in shambles, and it’s all because of the unhinged climate crusaders.
Britain’s staggering productivity crisis explains so many of our woes
By Matt Ridley, His Blog, Nov 2, 2024
Manchester’s £24m green network that doesn’t contribute to net zero (and loses money!)
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 8, 2024
‘I spent thousands upgrading to an energy C rating. What happened next will shock you’
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 8, 2024
Questioning Green Elsewhere
I’m pissed’: Alberta premier, oil and gas industry slam Ottawa’s new emissions cap
By Karen Bartko, Global News, Nov 4, 2024
Alberta Premier Danielle Smith did not mince words over Ottawa’s new greenhouse gas emissions cap announced Monday.
Alberta’s ruling party votes to dump emissions reduction plans and embrace carbon dioxide
By Jeremy Appel, Canada’s National Observer, Nov 2, 2024 (H/t Thomas Drolet)
Members of Alberta’s ruling United Conservative Party have voted overwhelmingly to abandon the province’s emissions reduction targets and recognize carbon dioxide as “a foundational nutrient for all life on earth.”
Keith Stewart, a senior energy strategist with Greenpeace Canada, told Canada’s National Observer that the resolution’s passage represents “an utter failure of leadership by Danielle Smith.”
“A real leader wouldn’t pander to conspiracy theories but instead gently, but firmly, inform their supporters that they have been misled, because climate change is real, it’s bad and it’s caused by burning fossil fuels,” Stewart said in a statement.
“Anything less is a crime against our kids.”
Big Green Projects Get Hoisted by Their Own Petards
By Craig Rucker, Newsmax, Oct 30, 2024
Who Really Cares About Climate Change?
Tuesday’s election shows that radical climate policy is a loser — even in Berkeley.
By Robert Bryce, His Blog, Nov 6, 2024
http://mail.haapala.com/interface/root#/email
Tree planting is no climate solution at northern high latitudes
By Jeppe Å. Kristensen, et al., Nature Geoscience, Nov 7, 2024 (H/t Bernie Kepshire)
(SEPP Comment: With over 300 billion trees in Canada and over 600 billion trees in Russia the boreal forests have plenty of volunteers doing the job well.)
The Political Games Continue
The Biggest Transatlantic Loser from Trump’s Election: Britain’s Labour Government
By Rupert Darwall, Real Clear World, Nov 7, 2024
On July 4, Starmer won a landslide majority in the House of Commons with the lowest share of the popular vote (33.7 percent) for a winning party since 1919. Yet within a month, Sofia Patel, the Labour Party’s head of operations, was emailing Labour staffers to “help our friends across the pond elect their first female president”—Patel adding somewhat condescendingly, “Let’s show those Yanks how to win elections.”
Litigation Issues
Alaska court: Climate change can’t justify giant habitat for seals
By Bonner Cohen, CFACT, Nov 1, 2024
The Biden-Harris administration’s effort to designate over 324,000 square miles as “critical habitat” for two species of arctic seals has been struck down by a federal court in Alaska, which ruled that the designation – largely based on future impacts of climate change – was invalid under the Endangered Species Act (ESA).
Exxon Knew! First Warming And Climate, Now Plastics
By Paul Driessen, Cornwall Alliance, Oct 31, 2024
Link to: Energy Resource Recovery Facility
By Staff, Public Works and Environmental Services, Fairfax County, VA, Accessed Nov 5, 2024
From Driessen: A municipal waste-to-energy (WTE) / resource recovery facility operated by Reworld/Covanta performs these wondrous conversions just a few miles from my home. Enormous quantities of normally landfilled, nonrecyclable home, business, industrial, government and agricultural waste are dumped into a receiving area, sorted for unacceptable materials (eg, rocks), mixed thoroughly and emptied into the combustion chamber, where everything is burned with natural gas at 2000 degrees F, until it’s totally combusted.
LNG “Pause” Scandal: GAO Files Notice with Court of Bloomberg Reporting
By Staff, Government Accountability & Oversight, Nov 8, 2024
Link to filing: Government Accountability & Oversight v United States Department of Energy
Unites States District Court for the District of Columbia, Nov 8, 2024
GAO filed a Notice of Supplemental Authority about this reporting by Bloomberg into the administration’s hurried effort to seal its (previously) stealth effort to stitch-up, before the January inauguration, a policy restricting exports of liquified natural gas (LNG) to non-FTA countries, grounded in a false pretext.
Private Firms, States Use Tobacco Lawsuit Playbook in Energy Cases
By Jonathan Draeger and Carl M. Cannon, WUWT, Nov 4, 2024
“Consumers are aware of global climate change and continue to use oil,” said Wayne Winegarden. “These lawsuits are an underhanded way of the states throwing on carbon taxes without having to take responsibility for it.”
EPA and other Regulators on the March
Feel-Good Environmental Regulations Won’t Save the Planet, but They Do Harm Consumers
By Nate Scherer, The Epoch Times, Nov 2, 2024 (H/t Bernie Kepshire)
Are the EPA’s Latest Lead Rules the Right Approach?
By Susan Goldhaber, ACSH, Nov 4, 2024
I believe that federal funding will ultimately decline before water systems can complete their lead service line replacements. Water and utility bills are already increasing, and even with government assistance, the impact on households will be meaningful. EPA should move to a targeted approach focused on the water systems that most need replacing their lead service lines. A blanket approach may sound good, but it is unlikely to achieve its desired effect.
The EPA says this rule is all about the children. We all love kids, but a targeted approach to lead removal will have the most impact in the real world.
Commonwealth of Virginia Priority Climate Action Plan
Prepared for the U.S. EPA as a deliverable through the Climate Pollution Reduction Grants (CPRG) Program, Section 60114(a) of the Inflation Reduction Act
By Staff, Virginia Department of Environmental Quality, March 2024
EPA as a deliverable through the Climate Pollution Reduction Grants (CPRG) Program
(SEPP Comment: Lacking physical evidence, regulators become ever more imaginative – Climate Pollution?)
Energy Issues – Non-US
MPs ignore causes of fuel poverty
By Andrew Montford, Net Zero Watch, Nov 7, 2024
OBR Say Oil and Gas Will Get Cheaper
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 6, 2024
If these work out to realistic, it will mean that renewable electricity becomes even more expensive, relative to gas-fired power.
One of the central planks in the renewable argument is that it will reduce our vulnerability to volatile gas prices.
(SEPP Comment: OBR is the UK Office for Budget Responsibility. It makes “Five-year forecasts for the UK economy and public finances and an assessment of whether the Government is likely to achieve its fiscal targets.”)
£1300 annual household bill for Net Zero grid (UK)
Press Release, NZW Team, Nov 5, 2024
Britain importing record amounts of electricity from Europe
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 3, 2024
On Friday, a spokesman for the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero said: “We are committed to boosting Britain’s energy security.
“Our mission is for clean power by 2030 because this is the best way to achieve energy independence, protect bill payers and reduce imports.”
The Dunkelflaute Disaster: What Happens When Wind Power Goes Silent (UK)
By Charles Rotter, WUWT, Nov 6, 2024
Chris Stark, one of the government’s leading voices in this green campaign, recently acknowledged on social media that gas is, for now, the main “backup.” In his words, they hope to replace it with “low-carbon flexibility,” which is code for technology that doesn’t yet exist at the scale required.
Gas Power Will Remain Crucial
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 5, 2024
NESO Say We Must Keep All Our Gas Plants Going
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 5, 2024
Well, the report into the feasibility of 2030 net zero targets from the electricity system operator, NESO, requested by Ed Miliband, has landed on his desk:
Energy Issues — US
Solar and Wind Won’t Replace Natural Gas for Decades: They Will Depend on It.
By Robin Gaster, Real Clear Energy, Nov 05, 2024
Washington’s Control of Energy
Biden administration tightens sage grouse protections ahead of second Trump term
By Sharon Udasin, The Hill, Nov 8, 2024
(SEPP Comment: Another largely fake environmental issue used to “protect” public lands from oil and gas development, thereby denying the public the benefits of public resources.)
With Trump presidency looming, Biden plans to publish draft gas export study this year
By Rachel Frazin, The Hill, Nov 7, 2024
Nuclear Energy and Fears
US regulator rejects bid to boost nuclear power to Amazon data center
By Julia Shapero, The Hill, Nov 4, 2024
Alternative, Green (“Clean”) Solar and Wind
Wot? No Wind?
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 3, 2024
Alternative, Green (“Clean”) Energy — Other
Hydrogen facility will definitely open in Bradford
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 6, 2024
So, for a hundred million or two, we will get enough hydrogen to power 800 diesel buses!
Bargain!
Hydrogen: A Key Element for Sustainable Aviation
By Clarence Oxford, Los Angeles CA (SPX) Nov 02, 2024
Link to research article: Challenges of Decarbonizing Aviation via Hydrogen Propulsion: Technology Performance Targets and Energy System Trade-Offs
By Anna Cybulsky, et al., ACS Sustainable Chemistry & Engineering, Sep 24, 2024
Alternative, Green (“Clean”) Energy — Storage
Lithium-Ion Battery Recycle Plant Explodes in Missouri
Americans are beginning to awaken realities of the “new green energy utopia”…which apparently entails a lot more chemistry and fire response than originally promised.
By Leslie Eastman, Legal Insurrection, Nov 2, 2024
“Consumers are aware of global climate change and continue to use oil,” said Wayne Winegarden. “These lawsuits are an underhanded way of the states throwing on carbon taxes without having to take responsibility for it.”
Alternative, Green (“Clean”) Vehicles
Fires, Pollution and Slavery: EVs’ Ugly Truth
By Vijay Jayaraj, Cornwall Alliance, Oct 31, 2024
California Dreaming
Is California Ready to Kill Its Oil Industry?
By Edward Ring, What’s Current? Accessed Nov 6, 2024
At the same time, California’s latest laws and regulations are destroying what remains of the industry’s ability to extract oil in-state. In Kern and other Californian oil producing counties, new drilling permits are almost impossible to acquire, and existing wells are subject to new restrictions that require setbacks of nearly a mile from any “sensitive receptor,” i.e., any building that houses people or is open to the public.
Oil production in California, steady throughout the 1980s at nearly 400 million barrels per year, has fallen to only 118 billion barrels in 2023, and the rate of decline is accelerating. Up through 2017, in-state production was dropping at a rate between 2-3 percent per year, but since then, production has dropped by 5-7 percent per year. We now import 75 percent of our crude oil. The industry is drying up. Energy companies are trying to adapt by grabbing federal subsidies to research hydrogen and CO2 sequestration. But the feasibility and ultimate value of these solutions are not clear, nor is the continuity of the subsidies.
Why California Must Pass the Low Carbon Fuel Standard Now
By Richard Katz, Real Clear Energy, Nov 07, 2024
In the wake of the presidential election, it’s more important than ever that California lead the way on climate protections.
To confront this reality, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) has a critical decision to make: passing a stronger Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS). This standard offers an opportunity for California to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions from one of its largest sources: transportation. By enacting this policy, CARB can lead California toward a sustainable future while boosting the state’s economy and safeguarding the health of its residents.
(SEPP Comment: California must abandon affordable, reliability electricity in favor of expensive, unreliable energy, with no physical evidence that carbon dioxide is the primary cause of climate change? And this will lead to greater prosperity?)
Other Scientific News
Astronauts Aboard International Space Station Told to Prepare for Urgent Evacuation
By Leslie Eastman, WUWT, Nov 2, 2024
The developments currently indicate the space agencies are preparing for a worst-case scenario, hoping the station lasts until its slated 2030 decommissioning. The US and Russia are having troubles reaching an agreement as to the conditions in which evacuation of the station would be deemed necessary.
Over the past two decades, the ISS has been a hub for groundbreaking scientific research. The microgravity environment has enabled significant advancements in studying diseases like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, cancer, asthma, and heart disease. The unique conditions allow researchers to observe cellular and molecular changes impossible on Earth.
Other News that May Be of Interest
What Ozone Crisis? NASA, NOAA Rank 2024 Ozone Hole as 7th-Smallest Since Recovery Began
By James R. Riordon, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Via Anthony Watts, WUWT, Nov 2, 2024
BELOW THE BOTTOM LINE
AI knows it is biased on climate change
By David Wojick, CFACT, Nov 4, 2024
(SEPP Comment: Playing games with AI.)
£1 Billion Scheme Could Deliver Low Carbon Heating to London’s Landmarks
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 8, 2024
York Minster Sell Its Soul For Solar Panels
By Paul Homewood, Not a Lot of People Know That, Nov 7, 2024
York Minster, formally the Cathedral and Metropolitical Church of Saint Peter in York, is an Anglican cathedral in the city of York, North Yorkshire built from 1230 to 1472.
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