The following is a transcript of an interview with HR McMaster, former National Security Advisor, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on August 25, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And now we’re joined by CBS News Foreign Policy and National Security Contributor, retired Lt. Gen. HR McMaster. He has a new book, “At War With Ourselves: My Tour of Duty in the Trump White House,” about his service there as National Security Advisor. Welcome to the program. Just as of today’s news, CENTCOM has around 40,000 US troops in the region, a real show of muscle power. Are you concerned about the miscalculation and miscalculation of those US troops?
LT. PUBLIC HR MCMASTER: Yes. Well, what I’m worried about, Margaret, is that those forces will hinder what they can do. I think what we have seen is the reluctance to act as if we know what the return address for- for this violence. And of course, the return address is- is Iran. And I think all Americans–
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean?
LT. PUBLIC HR MCMASTER: Well, that means–
MARGARET BRENNAN: What are you going to do to Iran?
LT. GENERAL HR MCMASTER: Iran is pursuing a strategy that- where- they are willing to spend every Arab life, every Palestinian life, every Lebanese life, to achieve their goal of destroying Israel. Meanwhile, Iran continues to fire weapons, not only into southern Lebanon, but also as a proxy army in Syria, into the West Bank. And this is why the Philadelphi Corridor is so important to Israel, so that Hamas is isolated from resupply from Iran as well. At the same time, Iran is racing to produce a nuclear device. So I think what you need to know is that it’s a terrible situation in the area that’s been going on for 40 years, right? It is important to remember that Shukr, the Hezbollah commander, who was killed, and- and- who Hezbollah is now trying to launch the attack in retaliation. I mean, he was responsible, in part, for the 1983 bombing that- that killed 241 Marines, so- in 1983. So this has been going on for decades. And I think that the constant narrative that you hear about de-escalation, management of escalation, reluctance, really, to confront Iran directly and impose costs on Iran, is actually giving Iran license to escalate on its own terms, with impunity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this is one of those serious situations that the next commander-in-chief is going to deal with. It does not disappear in January. And that’s why I want to understand some of what you write about in your book. You have this front row seat. You are advising Donald Trump on highly sensitive national security issues. You write, which finds it difficult to distinguish, Quote, “between those who bring people sound analysis and those, real or imagined, who bring people hackneyed bromides.” They’ll say something weird, like, “drug bombing” in Mexico, or, “why don’t we shoot the entire North Korean army during the parade?” If Trump wins re-election, will he be able to hire quality advisors who can help him make good decisions?
LT. HR GENERAL MCMASTER: Margaret, I think, especially in the confirmed positions. And if the Trump administration–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because Congress is going to prevent them from putting unqualified people in? What do you say?
LT. PUBLIC HR MCMASTER: Well, yes, I think so. You know, I think. And- and there are people who are willing to serve, who can help what we try in the first year. And you know, the- the narrative in the first year was all about chaos, but we got through it. In fact, this story is largely about overcoming such conflicts, which are wars with ourselves, to produce policies that advance America’s interests. One of them is the dramatic reversal of the Obama administration’s Iran policy, which, unfortunately, the Biden administration has reinstated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Iran continued its nuclear development after Trump pulled out of the nuclear deal, against the advice of the secretary of state and the secretary of defense. Become–
LT. MCMASTER HR GENERAL: I’m talking more about, like, sanctions relief, Margaret, and the degree to which Trump-era sanctions have actually resulted in $100 billion being transferred to Iran, which has been used to expand. proxy war in the region, from Iraq, to ​​Yemen, to Syria, to Lebanon, and obviously to Gaza, with the October 7 attack.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You detailed specific examples of China’s Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, even Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, manipulating Donald Trump, and you see it happening. You wrote that, “Trump’s lack of historical knowledge makes him vulnerable to Xi Jinping’s attempts to generate sympathy.” So what scenario do you fear? That in the second term, Donald Trump pulls US troops out of Asia, or he brokers a deal to give up Taiwan?
LT. PUBLIC HR MCMASTER: That’s right. Well, I wrote in the book, Margaret, about this dissonance, you know, that Donald Trump brings him, these opposing ideas that are sometimes difficult to reconcile. And that’s why I think it’s important that he has a competent team around him to help him identify his own agenda. I mean, the story in “At War With Ourselves” is very much, my attempt to preserve his independence, because in any administration, there are people who try to manipulate the president into a decision. They don’t want to give the president a choice. What is my experience, during the period of the first year that many big changes were made in the policy, that is, if you give the best analysis, if you give different options, then compared to the options – they can consider the costs and the long-term consequences and make good decisions. Also in the book, though, Margaret, I wrote about the times, which found it difficult to stick with those decisions, because people know how to push the button, especially the button that has the full support of his- his politics. basic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Manipulate her. You- you also wrote a specific example where Trump wrote a nice note to Vladimir Putin in 2018 and it happened at the same time this poisoning happened on the soil of a US ally by Russia.
LT. PUBLIC HR MCMASTER: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you got home, you said to your wife, “After (more than) a year in this job, I don’t know how Putin caught Trump.” How to explain now?
LT. GENERAL HR MCMASTER: Well, I explained it in the book. I tried to place the president’s belief that he could make a good deal with Vladimir Putin in the context of the two previous presidents who thought that they could make a good deal with- with Putin. But also, you know, President Trump, and people know this, hey- he likes big deals. He’s happy – he’s working with Putin. He is working with Xi Jinping. And of course, Putin is the best liar in the world. So I’m struggling, Margaret, should I write about how Putin tried to lie to President Trump, or not? And I think, well, Putin knows how he’s trying to do that. So maybe write about how Putin is trying to push Donald Trump’s buttons, which will make a future President Trump, if he is elected, less susceptible to such tactics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because he, on the campaign trail, argued this counterfactual, that Putin was afraid of him, that Putin wouldn’t invade Ukraine if he were President.
LT. MCMASTER HR GENERAL: Well, he has a point in some areas. In the first year of the Trump administration, I talked about how we imposed more sanctions on Russian entities in one year than we did in the previous eight years of the Obama administration. But a very critical decision, Margaret, I think, is to provide Ukrainian defense capabilities, especially in the form of Javelin missiles. But in the area of ​​inconsistency, I also told about how the support was suspended, you know, to get- to get, you know, proof- of the Biden family’s corrupt activities in Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Grounds for impeachment.
LT. PUBLIC HR MCMASTER: Right, absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Basically, you say, they’re justified.
LT. MCMASTER PUBLIC HR: So there’s an element in the story of how he’s able to make the right decisions and disrupt things that need to be disrupted in terms of foreign policy, national security, but often struggles to implement those decisions. and- and saw people passing by.
MARGARET BRENNAN: HR McMaster, thank you. It’s an interesting read.
LT. HR GENERAL MCMASTER: Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back.
